But you did not answer whether or not if you had the power you would confiscate the herds from the Mongols and the Maasai. I agree. I felt alright strengthwise and held my weight but my innards were not happy. And when you evade answering direct questions you have no credibility at all. Was the red meat and dairy suggested as being a possible cancer cause here the store-bought, homogenized, conventional corn-fed feedlot stuff or the grass-fed organic kind? It’s probably the healthiest thing you’ve been eating each morning. Who had the shortest lives and the most heart disease? Concern for animals is important and organizations dedicated to protecting them are worthwhile and necessary. They don’t actually build anything… did you not know that? I have never taken statins and never will. People ate a lot of butter in the past. Do you seriously think this is even remotely feasible? A: If doing what animals do is “natural” and correct will you be eating some poop today? I see what people are doing when they use the word ‘humane’ and I don’t buy it. Do these thoughts sound familiar: Don’t eat too much butter; you’ll clog your arteries”, Easy on the butter, you don’t want to get heart disease, Careful not to use too much, you’ll end up like Paula Dean, Lowfat is healthier for people watching their weight, Always choose low or reduced fat to be healthy. They don’t. What do you eat, Badger? If you live in America then maybe you don’t get to hear about the realities of climate change as much the rest of the world does, so maybe I could make some allowance for your ignorance on this critically important and deeply worrying subject. of cheese a year per person. “Balance”? It’s hard to break habits or thinking once it’s been ingrained in our minds. Dairy cows live vastly shorted lives (just 25%); they are routinely slaughtered when they become unproductive. B: Why is the Western world, which gorges on foods high in saturated fats, riddled with heart disease, strokes, diabetes, etc.? A proper portion of organic peanut butter … They would go where then? I suppose even putting a bull in a pen with a cow is morally questionable: I mean they might copulate but, was it really “consensual”…. of butter per year. Just look it up and read it. A: I didn’t want to “revisit” this, you did, by regurgitating an old claim about how mankind’s dairying is inherently brutal to calves – as opposed to gentle and merciful Nature. So I added the dairy (milk, butter, cheese) back in. It’s a natural cycle that keeps the planet breathing. Was that optimal? I know, I know…I’m strung out on the moo-juice! And also watch “The Vegetarian Myth” by Lierre Keith. So they did not decay. And of course I don’t contribute to “green house gases” by funding the monoculture Agri-businesses that depend so intensely on mechanized harvesting and processing. Or is it “all the same” in your judgment? Try and see the truth in this and be honest about it. THC (or CBD if you have the lab tests) are in each serving of your finished edibles. This raised the question: how much is best? “There are a number of points of contention regarding milk consumption both on this site and on the wider internet.”, “The naturalness of drinking another animal’s milk.”. Of course not, that would be silly. I can’t believe you are incapable of working this out. I asked: Do you deny the importance and role of cholesterol in the body? On a dairy farm they are killed off after just 4-5 years when they become commercially unviable. Now that’s choice. Our natural, skin-on, roasted almond butter contains 612 calories per 100g. B: You sound bitter and uneducated making comments like that. But in my past I have tried a few different diets. Trying to compare the natural occurrence of infant/parent separation in the wild, with the routine systematic premeditated forced separation of millions and millions of new-born and infant offspring from their mothers on farms, seems a pretty weak argument. Life is too short for me to try and educate you on this. Sit and ponder this for a moment and see if a solution comes to you. Try to limit your peanut butter intake to one serving per day (two tablespoons), and make sure to count those 190 calories toward your daily caloric quota. However, you should also be aware of hidden saturated fats in other areas of your diet that may increase … Sometimes this “delivery” man sees me and gives a wave. A: “The naturalness of drinking another animal’s milk.” What was it you said about not wanting to “revisit the specifics” we’ve been through before? I peek through my curtains and catch a capped figure dressed in uniform white dropping off three gallons of full fat whole milk: the “hard stuff”… on my front porch. THE JURY STILL SEEMS LIKE IT’S OUT FOR YOU ON THIS TOPIC BECAUSE THAT WHAT THE PUBLIC NARRATIVE HAS BEEN THE LAST 100 YEARS OR SO… THAT HOW OUR SOCIETY HAS GOTTEN TO THIS POINT – No, I imply the research is inconclusive because… it’s inconclusive!! This experiment used cheaper butter and took place in a different context than the original discovery. Wait – I’m already doing just that. B: So, let me get this right… as long as the millions of male calves who are bred deliberately, only to find themselves surplus to requirements, are murdered in a ‘humane’ way, that’s all good with you. Just because they took it with them doesn’t mean it was good for them. At any rate I totally disagree with you. A: How do we know you aren’t in the nut “milk”, soy “milk” business yourself or hired by them to assault your direct competition – the dairy milk providers? Would this lessen his crime? If this is confusing, look at the points with accuracy values in the middle. But the article isn’t sure what a “Mediterranean Diet” is, saying: “There isn’t one exact Mediterranean diet, as this eating style takes can [sic] incorporate the different foods, eating patterns, and lifestyles in multiple countries that border the Mediterranean Sea.”. In so far as it is the expression of the “National Aeronautics and Space Administration” – they “administer” space. I suppose that’s possible, physiologically. Ok, not that extreme, but yes it appears the huge dose of vitamins and minerals in the liver and milk are replenishing what I squandered away during the decade that I was brainwashed into drinking soy milk and eating high carbs only. My father designed some of the hydraulic systems for what was the most famed of the X-planes throughout its’ creation and run and those for the Shuttle. That’s funny. found in fatty meat, butter, palm and coconut oil, cream, cheese, ghee and lard). When looking at how much peanut butter is too much, you need to also look at the health risks involved with over-indulgence. The French have among the highest consumption of dietary fat: red meat, cheese, butter…. I personally go with the scientists. B: Okay, a CLIMATE DENIER as well. Later, you responded to my point blank question: If doing what animals do is “natural” and correct will you be eating some poop today? Your word? A valid concern- I can confidently say that today’s dairy cow lives a better life than any time in history. Why? What about the other colder, darker months of the year? Lastly the calculator will tell you how many mgs. Don’t post a blizzard of vegan crap telling me how “unnatural” milk-drinking is because no other animals do it but when it’s pointed out that animals also “naturally” eat poop you play this game of evasion. I grew up schooled in the same belief: If you go without Vitamin C in your diet you will die of scurvy- whether you’re on a boat at sea or not. America – where Harvard is located – is a whole ‘nother ballgame. One could indeed suggest that all these cattle or a portion of them (number to be determined by you…) be set “free” in some geographic location to live out their lives and even to procreate follow-on generations instead of remaining on the now-bankrupt farms during their natural attrition. Find some good tips for newcomers on our “Get Started” page. Are you a macro counter? It seems incredibly unnatural in principle to consume the milk from other animals and to do so beyond weening, but yes, if you do it over a number of generations you can build up a tolerance to its effects. I’m gonna do my best here because going over and over stuff with someone who is not prepared to entertain reason, is frustrating. Lactose intolerance in a huge proportion of the world’s human population. “Vast numbers of cows are purposefully breed and kept captive, against their will, on dairy farms.”, “Artificial insemination, routine in the dairy industry, is a terribly invasive and stressful procedure.”, But if you take away artificial insemination then farmers will have no way to sustain or multiply their herds and all cattle-keeping and dairying will have to disappear! Of course I would happily promote vegan products and a vegan lifestyle simply because it’s cruelty-free. edit: … surf or ski or fly aerobatics I have more endurance than a teenager. ”. If all they ever hear is your side DG then they are not getting the full picture, simply a dairy farmers perspective with a vested interest. If someone is lactose intolerant… stay with me, now… they shouldn’t drink milk! And making the adjustment is EASY! And yet, there you go again… So I’ll ask once more: Do you define the “naturalness” of human activity by what other animals do? For some European groups like the Swedes lactose tolerance is nearly 100% of the population. It looks like Post #4 I either missed or it didn’t make the cut due to the link in it… so I’ll call this one “Post #4-A to Badger”: I couldn’t pass this by… “A cow in the wild would naturally live 20-25 years.”. Others, through necessity and by free enterprise and other abilities became carpenters, blacksmiths, soldiers, thinkers and explorers and built the civilization and infrastructure which today you are living off of and benefiting from the foundation of. Your weekly milk bill must be way lower than mine. There is probably no diet that is the holy grail, but eating what our ancestors ate is probably going to be a safe bet for us. Do they eat meat and drink milk because of an overpowering internal demand that you cannot change- or because they don’t know about the abuse or they couldn’t care less? What exactly do you think a ‘humane’ farm is anyway? So “I can’t believe it’s not butter” goes extinct. We need water in our bodies to live but too much can kill you. They were left in the earth for millions of years under pressure and that’s where fossil fuels come from. I read the Harvard diet article you linked. In the wild? Our archive of hundreds of self-tracking projects. It’s quite a picture. Comparing the 30 g/day results with the combination of earlier and later 60 g/day results, t = 3, p = 0.006. You know, my own background is in aerospace: Flying both civilian and military. I assume it reflects overall brain function. So in the case of a rapid reduction in demand – such as humanity switching overnight to a vegan diet – the end result will be (X years down the road) the death of all the cows that were on the farms. Before I collected this data, I put considerable work into these measurements. Photo by Kristine Mahan. They then have their babies (calves) forcefully taken from them causing massive distress to both, as it would to any sentient being, before spending a short lifes being hooked up to a milking machine a couple of times a day. Only if he’s doing it right…, “Calves are separated from their mothers at an unnaturally young age. Yes, and in their “MONICA” study on heart disease vs cholesterol levels the cold, hard reality was found that the people on planet Earth with the highest blood cholesterol levels (the Swiss, French and Spanish) had the LEAST amount of cardiovascular disease and had the greatest longevity. of butter per year was not unreasonable. B: I am but a humble member of society with a conscience, that’s all Alvin. Since this was a study by the (American) National Cancer Institute it would be correct to assume that these were American women and not French, Swiss or Spanish, correct? Your response: “B: There is not enough land on earth to meet the meat and dairy demands without factory farms – research it… All farmed animals die brutal deaths in slaughterhouses regardless of where they come from, so in that sense, yes, they are the same.”. In the Nurses’ Health Study II, premenopausal women who ate diets high in animal fat had a 40 to 50 percent higher risk of breast cancer, compared to women who ate the least animal fat. Whether it’s from herbivores, omnivores, ruminants, rodents, primates, BACTERIA, or anything else, those sugars will be broken down and CO2 will be a by-product. The Great Depression hit and then World War II, with these events causing a steep decline in butter consumption with a concurrent rise in margarine use. You can go weeks without Vitamin C before you get scurvy. Cows fed on grass? No retirement plan there for Mrs Cow, its hamburger time for her. I also think about the vikings, they were a herding culture. Even fruit preserves don’t solve the problem: Whether dried or canned fruit loses it C so much that it could not have been the answer to keep people alive. And because of these beliefs, butter consumption in America declined rapidly over the last century as people began to see butter as unhealthy. Put butter on pancakes. That said, I support all efforts to end or reduce pollution, and I support most if not all “green” technologies. I assume something that improves brain function will make me faster at arithmetic. It makes sense because butter is a great nutrient dense food. What is a “regular diet” according to Harvard? A: Of course not. Here’s what the World Health Organisation (WHO) says about a “Healthy Diet for Adults”: A healthy diet contains: Less than 30% of total energy intake from fats. Their condition could then have been cured in either of two different ways: with fresh fruit containing lots of Vitamin C or with fresh meat. The dumb farmer is another stereotype that you’ve fallen for.. I’ve been studying dairy my whole life – practically and academically. Butter is not bad for you, it’s actually a superfood. I’m simply trying to bring some balance to that one-sided view point, get it? I consume about two ounces a day either melted in a bowl of very warm milk for breakfast and lunch or used in cooking meat. Being that there used to be 80 million buffalo roaming the plains of central N. America, i think we are making progress. = 7 lbs/ person for 4 months = 21 lbs. Butter is actually a superfood and provides your body with an array of health-enhancing, bioactive compounds. For a long time I ate 60 g of butter (= 4 tablespoons = half a stick) per day. Butter Consumption = 4 oz per week = 208 oz. But exactly how much salt is in salted butter? Just look it up and read it. My ancestors, and their neighbors… and the tribes and nations in which they lived and survived and functioned and thrived, ate meat and drank milk and made cheese…generation after generation… and did so quite successfully millennium after millennium – all without factory farming. So what is stopping you from eating more butter? Why am I hardly surprised? --- Elyse wrote: Not including whats in my food I need to add about 13 tablespoons of oils, butter or ghee. 2. The Serengeti, perhaps? To assess this idea, I plotted speed versus accuracy (each point a different day). I care about animals, too. Then I ate 30 g/day for several days. What I will fight to expose is liars, deniers and those who make false claims to further their own cause; those who distort the truth and say things which are not proven or substantiated. I am sure you make a hansom living exploiting animals and your website helps tell you customers all’s good, nice one. And the reverse is true for those with the lowest? With its short and natural ingredient list, butter certainly looks a lot healthier than other fat spreads such as margarine. Have you ever … A sample menu that sailors aboard the USS Constitution notes that sailors ate 4 oz. New to Quantified Self? Have a read of this (if DG allows it)… I trust that a Harvard Institute piece on ‘Dietary Fat and Disease’ is a credible enough source for you?? Unlike you, I do not believe animals are objects meant for humans to exploit. 2-3 tablespoons of butter a day isn't anything to worry about, really. Farms and herds got proportionately larger and meat, milk and cheese was bought, sold and bartered for as markets were established. Who eat their poop. I assume it reflects overall brain function. A: But in the dairy industry it does happen that calves are slaughtered, albeit far more humanely than by lions’ claws and wolves’ teeth. As for the horrors of vegetable abuse and exploitation, this website may just help in understanding the comparison you make with animal cruelty 😉 vegetable cruelty .com. It’s an interesting tact you take regarding the effects of cholesterol; choosing not to deny that fatty dairy (and red meats), heavy in saturated fats cause increased levels of cholesterol, instead arguing that increased levels of cholesterol are not harmful, despite the mountain of medical research directly linking the consumption of harmful saturated fats from dairy and red meats with an increased risk of heart disease and stroke. First your comment about “the Western world” is your own belief – it’s not in the article. Manipulative yes, but definitely not dumb. Because of the speed of the butter change, in the future I can do better balanced experiments that change conditions more often. Butter has always been a staple in the American diet. I asked: Is dietary Vitamin C from fruits, vegetables, plants necessary for human survival? And once as week a half pound of grass-fed liver “boiled” in a couple ounces of butter. 3. A: “The vast majority of us, particularly in the developed world, have absolutely no need to consume cow’s milk for survival anymore; it is a choice erroneously sold to the masses as being natural, normal and necessary.” Hmm. Milk being according to you “unnecessary, unfit, improper, genocidal”, etc thus quite, quite wrong for human consumption. There’s a solution! in their billions, for human exploitation. To fertilize the soil? They should eat primarily what is local to them and what they evolved on. Also, the risk of developing noncommunicable diseases like diabetes, heart disease, stroke and cancer is lowered by reducing saturated fats to less than 10% of total energy intake, and trans fats to less than 1% of total energy intake, and replacing both with unsaturated fats. Resources for Scholars & Healthcare Workers, better-designed reaction-time experiments to study cognition, Saul’s methodological advice about these experiments. But is that reality? In the early 1900s, Americans consumed about 17 pounds of butter per person per year; by 2004 butter consumption was only at 3.7 pounds per person per year. Finally, you use the way wolves kill their prey to draw a comparison with premeditated, systematic, industrial-scale animal slaughter (150 billion+ animals slaughtered a year!). I find it pretty straightforward. I’m right there with ya. That plant matter that those burping herbivores are eating would have decayed from some other process that would have produced equal amounts of CO2 and those plants being devoured makes way for new plants to grow which will then again absorb equal amounts of CO2 and give off O2. I was alive when the great advice was to each high-carb. Drinking milk unnecessarily beyond weening. The world-wide demand for meat and milk is that overpowering? Therefore, two tablespoons of butter provide more saturated fat than most … Life is too short for me to try and educate you on this. Dammit! You should try this also and see how you feel after a few weeks. One of the greatest threats to health on long sea voyages was scurvy, a potentially fatal disease caused by a deficiency of vitamin C, normally sourced from fresh fruit and vegetables. Speaking about heart disease, the Harvard article recommends “the Mediterranean Diet” because it includes “extra-virgin olive oil or nuts, both rich sources of unsaturated fat” then points out below: “This study highlighted that low-fat diets are continuing to lose credibility, and that incorporating healthy fats – such as those included in the Mediterranean diet – can improve heart health.”. Third, technological advances. Modern, humane slaughtering is far, far less cruel and brutal compared to what happens in “nature”. When I changed over to my present diet which appears to be very “Mongolian”, I certainly felt better. you would get an intelligent well-studied answer on any subject – like climate change. But you can start reminding yourself when you eat butter that it’s good for you: Eating fat is a necessary part of a healthy diet, Butter is probably the healthiest thing I can eat in the morning. It’s known as the lactase-persistence gene. 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